Amen!

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Irma
GomezLucero
Enviado el: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:24 PM
Para: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Pope & LDS

As far as the Catholic Church records that many of us research, they are
records of religious Sacraments plain and simple (Baptism, Confirmation,
Marriage, Death--last rites) received by individuals, and were not
government or civil records--these came later. Even the Census records
I have run across, list whether the individual received Communion. Lets
remember that such records of sacraments be kept was mandated by the
Catholic Church and not the crown therefore these were not government
records. Our ancestors went to the Catholic Church to receive their
Sacraments. When our ancestors had their children baptized, it was
because they wanted them to be members of the Catholic community. When
a priest was called for a dying person, it was to receive his/her last
rites.
Although Jose Carlos made his comment in a tongue and cheek
manner, it does turn things around, and make a rational person think.

"With "tongue in cheek", maybe the Pope could retaliate by re-baptising
the dead Mormons to Catholicism?"
Jose Carlos de Leon

How would LDS members feel if their religious records were used this
way? Would they perceive this act as disrespectful of their beliefs or
their ancestor's beliefs?

I do not take these re-baptisms to heart. My ancestors knew what they
wanted-- I, like Felix had very devout Catholics as my ancestors:
several priests, a saint, nuns, Church builders, etc., My earthly
family is too.

I am very appreciative that the LDS Church has preserved these records,
and made them available to me as a Non-Member--regardless of what
motivated the LDS Church. If it were not for their doing, I never would
have been able to access as much information as I have, nor gotten so
far in my research. Some of these records have given me a wealth of
information. I have discovered that an ancestor couple of mine had a
hand in building one of the Catholic Churches in my folk's hometown.
When I walk into a Family History Library, I always remember that I am
guest and behave as one. I would never disrespect their beliefs
although I've heard individuals unknowingly bash mine.

The Pope as the earthly leader of the Catholic Church has a right to
stop making records of Catholic Sacraments available to non-members or
non-relatives. He has not stepped away from his role as religious
leader. He is protecting religious records of individuals who have
come to the Church for spiritual guidance, membership, etc.,
I personally would not want records of my baptism, confirmation,
marriage, etc., to be used in this manner in the future for re-baptism.
Not that I wouldn't know how to respond :)

I believe that we have much microfilm to research in order to get a good
grasp on who our ancestors were and how they lived.

Irma

Irma:

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I can surely see how many people would find LDS practices offensive. In fact, I have had some of my relatives become upset at me for using LDS resources and donating a copy of my book with my research to the Family History Library because they were angry that their ancestors might be baptized by LDS.

You state that these records were sacramental records plain and simple, but I don't agree that it is that simple. Under Spanish rule, there was no freedom of religion and as such all marriages and baptisms had to be performed by the Catholic Church. The Spanish Crown gave the Church the duty and monopoly on recording births (through baptisms), marriages and deaths. All of these records were considered official records for government and juridical purposes. Thus in effect they were civil registration. It was not until Independence and the separation of Church and State that a separate civil registry was established because until then people had no choice to baptize their children anywhere else or to get married anywhere else.

Regardless, I could see if the Church had some policy about making such records available for historical and genealogical research. However, my experience in trying to access these records directly at parrishes has been met mostly with an unwillingness to help or sometimes with outright hostility. I know of very valuable records from the 1600s in Jerez and Colotlan that have not been filmed and are already in poor condition and the parrishes are doing nothing to preserve them. It is sad.