By alexfanatico |

Can someone help me sort this out ? I'm not sure if these people are the same with different last names. I'm trying to do my family search on one of my last name Flores. The person in question is Simon Flores who married Maria del Carmen Lomeli in the 1830's in jalisco. I have yet to find their wedding document. I'm a related to their son Calletano Flores born in the 1840's. I have yet to find his birth doc too.I know that it was in the 1840's because I did find Calletano's wedding doc. 2 of Calletano's sisters were born in tecolotlan. They are Francisca Flores, born Jan 28th 1853. And Donaciana Flores born Sept 5 1858. Based on their baptism documents. the grandparents were Jose Maria Flores and Benita Salazar. I came across a wedding document for a Simon Becerra married to Maria del Carmen Lomeli on Jun 14 1837 in Tecolotlan. Simon Becerra parents in the document are Jose Maria Becerra and Benita Salazar. Can they be the same person ?And why would they change the last name ? I also found that Simon Becerra and Maria del Carmen Lomeli did baptise other children with the Becerra last name. Can someone point me in the right direction ? PLEASE!

Alex

The similarity of names is certainly suggestive.

I would try to find the matrimonial investigations for each of these marriages; hopefully they exist for the time period of interest. There may be some clues there. In some cases the matrimonial investigations exist even though you cannot find a marriage document. Maybe there is a Flores in the Becerra or Lomeli ancestry could account for a surname change.

I would also look at the specific birthplaces, not just the town where the church where the baptism or marriage was celebrated. If only one locale is mentioned in all the records it helps to make the case that the two Simons are the same person.

Good luck,
George Fulton

Hola Alex,

I was going to suggest what George recommends. The matrimonial investigations will give place of birth and approximate age. Check the witnesses - sometimes they are family members.

Personally, I’d say they are the same person: “Simon” was not a common name, and the coinciding given name of his father, and the coinciding names of the wives are strong indicators.

Try this: make a timeline for both Simon Flores and Simon Becerra, and then put them together: if the Flores and Becerra children are born at least 9 months apart, then you’re on the right track. Also, as George recommends, check which rancho or puesto the children were born on, and the padrinos, and see if they coincide.

I’d also recommend researching the family group of Jose Maria Becerra aka Flores and Benita Salazar, and see if he used both surnames, or any of their other offspring.

For some reason or another, some people used aliases. Naming practices get confusing, as you dig further back, though it was usually the women who would alternate surnames (usually between their paternal & maternal surnames).

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

R.A.Ricci (not verified)

9 years 2 months ago

Permalink

Dear Alex,

I believe that George and Manny have provided excellent advice as to how to proceed with this investigation. You left out some information that may help the investigation such as, Who is Calletano Flores married to and what are the names of his children?

Here is the baptismal record for Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin. I am not sure if he is the same person as Calletano Flores but I believe that it is a high possibility due to the information you have given. More research is needed to confirm this though. I also found some other records you should look at. You may have to research all of Calletano's siblings to see if any of their descendants also used the Flores surname.

Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin
Mexico Baptisms
Name Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 Aug 1849
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Ma. Canuta Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSX6-LMB : 12 December 2014), Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin, 23 Aug 1849; citing CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,548.

Jose George De Jesus Becerra Lomelin
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 Apr 1838
Christening Place Corazon De Jesus, Tecolotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name Jose Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Juana Mara. Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXHW-KJC : 12 December 2014), Jose George De Jesus Becerra Lomelin, 23 Apr 1838; citing Tecolotlán, Jalisco, Mexico, reference 2:1XW1KQC; FHL microfilm 1,154,547

Mara. Feliciana De Jesus Becerra Lomelin
Gender Female
Christening Date 12 Jun 1840
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Mara. Del Carmen Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYT6-DLZ : 12 December 2014), Mara. Feliciana De Jesus Becerra Lomelin, 12 Jun 1840; citing CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,547.

Ma. Tomasa De Jesus Becerra Lomelin
Mexico Baptisms
Name Ma. Tomasa De Jesus Becerra Lomelin
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Sep 1842
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Ma. Carmen Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYT6-DL6 : 12 December 2014), Ma. Tomasa De Jesus Becerra Lomelin, 19 Sep 1842; citing CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,547.

J. Simon Becerra
mentioned in the record of J. Simon Becerra and Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin
Name J. Simon Becerra
Spouse's Name Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin
Event Date 14 Jun 1837
Event Place Corazon De Jesus,Tecolotlan,Jalisco,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZL-MHM : 15 July 2015), J. Simon Becerra and Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin, 14 Jun 1837; citing Corazon De Jesus,Tecolotlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,560.

Other information in the record of Sabina Becerra Lomelin
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Sabina Becerra Lomelin
Gender Female
Christening Date 01 Jan 1845
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Ma. Del Carmen Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJBY-P2S : 12 December 2014), Simon Becerra in entry for Sabina Becerra Lomelin, 01 Jan 1845; citing CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,547.

from Mexico Baptisms
Name Donaciana Becerra Lomelin
Gender Female
Christening Date 07 Sep 1851
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Carmen Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG81-C3D : 12 December 2014), Simon Becerra in entry for Donaciana Becerra Lomelin, 07 Sep 1851; citing CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,548.

J. Simon Becerra
mentioned in the record of J. Simon Becerra and Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin
Name J. Simon Becerra
Spouse's Name Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin
Event Date 14 Jun 1837
Event Place Corazon De Jesus,Tecolotlan,Jalisco,Mexico
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZL-MHM : 15 July 2015), J. Simon Becerra and Maa. Del Carmen Lomelin, 14 Jun 1837; citing Corazon De Jesus,Tecolotlan,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,154,560.

Jose Olallo Becerra
Spouse's Name Maria Benita Salazar
Event Date 04 Oct 1790
Event Place Ameca,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Juan Francisco Becerra
Mother's Name Maria Feliciana Cruz
Spouse's Father's Name Felix Salazar
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Josefa Sepeda
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZH-CW6 : 15 July 2015), Jose Olallo Becerra and Maria Benita Salazar, 04 Oct 1790; citing Ameca,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 233,117.

Name Maria Anselma Therza Beserra Salazar
Gender Female
Christening Date 01 May 1799
Christening Place AMECA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Maria Beserra
Mother's Name Maria Benita Salazar
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVTB-X7G : 12 December 2014), Maria Benita Salazar in entry for Maria Anselma Therza Beserra Salazar, 01 May 1799; citing AMECA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 233,070

Name Jose Estanislao Beserra Salazar
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Jul 1805
Christening Place AMECA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Estanislao Beserra
Mother's Name Maria Benita Salazar
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVTY-KBC : 12 December 2014), Maria Benita Salazar in entry for Jose Estanislao Beserra Salazar, 02 Jul 1805; citing AMECA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 233,070.

A possible second marriage for Maria Benita Salazar?
Maria Benita Salazar
mentioned in the record of Jose Nepomuceno Gonzalez and Maria Benita Salazar
Name Jose Nepomuceno Gonzalez
Spouse's Name Maria Benita Salazar
Event Date 04 Feb 1826
Event Place Ameca,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Agustin Gonzalez
Mother's Name Teresa Aguallo
Spouse's Father's Name Pablo Salazar
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Gertrudis Ruiz
CITING THIS RECORD

"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZFK-K9K : 16 July 2015), Jose Nepomuceno Gonzalez and Maria Benita Salazar, 04 Feb 1826; citing Ameca,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 233,119.

Jose Simon Beserra Salasar
Gender Male
Christening Date 30 Oct 1808
Christening Place SAN MIGUEL,COCULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Jose Beserra
Mother's Name Benita Salasar
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1TG-C7K : 12 December 2014), Jose Simon Beserra Salasar, 30 Oct 1808; citing SAN MIGUEL,COCULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 232,869.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Thank you soo much for the help. By the information you have given me, it is looking like they are the same person. Regarding Calletano Flores, I have yet to find his birth document too. Maybe that's why I cannot find it. Calletano Flores married Maria Trinidad Rangel and the children I have for them are;
Ursulo Flores- Can't find birth or death document
Ignacio Flores- my great grandfather who married Leonarda Garcia on March 1 1908 in San Juan de Amula, El Limon, Jalisco. He is listed on the marriage certificate as Flores. I don't have his birth or death document.
Ricardo Flores, born April 3 1890 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Micaela Flores- born 29 Sept 1892 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco-document found
Narcisa Flores- born 28 July 1894 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Higinio Flores- born 11 Jan 1900 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Maria Flores- born 25 October 1901 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco- document found
I will use the information you have given me to compare. Another important factor I left out is the parents of Maria del Carmen Lomeli. On the baptism records for 2 of Calletanos sisters, Francisca and Donaciana Flores, it mentions the grandparents on the maternal side which are the same names as the Becerra line. Julian Lomeli and Francisca Rodriguez. I think it's too much coincidence.

Dear Alex,
I agree with you that having the baptism records for 2 of Calletanos sisters, Francisca and Donaciana Flores is a big key. That they mention the grandparents on the maternal side, which are the same names as the Becerra line, Julian Lomeli and Francisca Rodriguez, is very important for this search. As you continue researching remember that although Francisca's father's surname is Rodriguez, Francisca also used the surname Coronado.

The information that you added that your great grandparents were from Chiquilistlan adds ammunition to the connection between Them and Jose Julian Lomeli y Macias who was born in Chiquilistlan.

The parents of Josef Julian Lomelin y Macias, Juan Antonio Lomelin and Juana Maria Macias, had many children born in Chiquilistlan.

Your welcome,
Rick A. Ricci

Rick,
Could I bother you with help on another issue. I'm trying to find the birth\death document for my great grandmother Leonarda Garcia. I have been looking for about 6 months now and have yet to locate it. I don't know where\when she was born. I know she passed away between 1920's and 1930's in Jalisco around El Grullo. My grandmother was told her mother died during labor. She was a kid at the time and does not remember how old she was. My grandmother was born March 26 1919 in el Grullo. She was the last child to be born. Leonarda Garcia was married to Ignacio Flores (Becerra). They were married March 1 1908 in San Juan de Amula, El Limon, Jalisco. Leonarda Garcia's parents were Silvestre Garcia and Maria del Pilar Siordia. Thanks !

Dear Alex,

I'm glad to help but that is a lot of years that you have to go page by page. Please talk to your grandmother and see if you can narrow the time frame some in order to make this search easier. Ask about different occurrences in her life and ask if her grandmother died after or before each occurrence. Hours talking to her narrowing it down may save many months of work. Have you tried searching both civil and church records? If she was ill for an extended time, she may have been moved to a hospital in the nearest big city. What is the nearest big city?

I used to live in front of a lady born in El Gullo. My mom still keeps in contact with her, they are in their late 80's.

Good luck,
Rick

Thanks for the advise. I will speak with my grandmother and see if I can narrow it down. I have been looking through the civil and church records, but as you stated. It is a big gap and it's taking me forever, and have yet to find anything. I wont give up though. thanks again !

Alex

Have you looked at Ancestry.com? Civil records. - births, marriages, and deaths - have been indexed for many communities, with linked images. If you do not have a subscription many public libraries do, as well as the LDS Family History Centers.

George Fulton

Dear George,
Thank you George Fulton for providing such excellent advice.

Dear Alex,

After you interrogate your grandmother trying to get a smaller timeframe and the right town to look at, it would be wise to follow George Fulton's advice and use ancestry.com's indexes since that would take a lot less time and work.

Looking forward to hearing about what you learned from your grandmother. You may have engage her in conversation for hours, getting her to just ramble on and on with guided questions, often asking the same questions, to get guidance as to where to find what you are looking for. My mother in laws brothers didn't give me what I was looking for until I had them talking over eight hours over three days. On the third day they remembered one more of the grandmothers brothers that was the key to continuing that family tree.

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

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Reply to

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Indexed civil records on Ancestry.com
Submitted by gpf13 on Tue, 2016-09-13 19:11.
Alex

Have you looked at Ancestry.com? Civil records. - births, marriages, and deaths - have been indexed for many communities, with linked images. If you do not have a subscription many public libraries do, as well as the LDS Family History Centers.

George Fulton

reply

R.A.Ricci (not verified)

9 years 1 month ago

Permalink

Here is information on Josef Calletano Becerra Lomelin

Baptism image 251 out of 714
Tecolotlan, Jalisco
Baptism records 1845-1855

Parents
Simon Beserra and Maria Carmenita (or Canuta) Lomelin

Abuelos paternos. Jose Maria Beserra and Maria Bernarda (Benita) Zalazar

Abuelos maternos Josef Julian Lomelin Macias ( bap. 25/Apr/1789)and Maria Francisca Rodriguez (aka Ma.Franca.Coronado) married 17/Jun/1816 Tecolotlan Jalisco

Parents of Josef Julian Lomelin y Macias Juan Antonio Lomelin and Juana Maria Macias

Parents of Maria Francisca Rodriguez (aka Coronado) are Jose Antonio Rodriguez and Maria Luisa Casillas

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Genealogy Research